Currently, and Formerly for a Long Time, the Best Introduction to Caverns History

This photographic history of the caverns is absolutely the best overview and introduction to the history of the caverns that exists. While it does not have footnotes, the stories are factual, as far as my personal research collaborates.

Jim White, Ray V. Davis, Willis T. Lee, Tom Boles and others--great photos, great historical narrative.

Book is available from the Carlsbad Caverns Guadalupe Mountains Association at http://www.ccgma.org/ , along with other great materials to understand both parks better. CCGMA supports various projects in both parks

The former Cave Park Historian, (Bob Hoff--me) highly recommends this book if you want the historical story of this one-of-a-kind natural wonder, now a World Heritage Site, as well as one of the best national parks in America.

Claiming Or Not Claming Caverns Fame

Notice that Bullington is just showing a list of the claimants, not trying to decide who first discovered the caverns. To this very day, we still don't know the first person to "discover the caverns because we still don't have sufficient evidence to prove any one's individual story. I personally like what he says about Jim White: his accomplishments as an explorer and guide cannot be denied. For me, others certainly contributed to putting the caverns on the map (Willis T. Lee and family, Ray V.Davis, W.F. McIlvain, Tom Boles, local politicians, the National Park Service, the hundreds of employees that made the caverns accessible and "civilized," and every early visitor who came, "saw in awe," and carried word back to their neighbors.(Bob Hoff, une 2006--Some reformatting done for clarity; no facts changed, one bit of information added--BH

Who Discovered Carlsbad Caverns?

CACA Park Naturalist Neal Bullington

May 1968

Introduction:
Over the years considerable legend or myth has grown up concerning the discovery of Carlsbad Caverns and who the discoverer really was, We are sure the Indians knew of the Cavern for an extremely long time before us, so when we talk of "discoverer," we refer to an early immigrant. He may have been a wandering cowboy or sheep- herder. He may have been a rancher or farmer, or perhaps just a traveler passing through for parts unknown. It is almost certain that we do not know who the discoverer was and equally certain that we will never know. Anyone who could have told us did not come forward in the early days and is now long since gone,

It in not the purpose of this report to advance one claim over another, and certainly not to discredit the claim of any. It is merely to present the facts as we know them today, so that a better knowledge of cavern history may be gained by those interested.

Many men have laid claim to the discovery. No doubt some of then knew their claim to be false but advanced it for the sake of honor or notoriety. Others undoubtedly set forth their claim in good faith, sincerely believing themselves to be the discoverer. If a man chanced upon the entrance or entered the Cavern, and left only a slight indication of his passage, others coming later - whether one day or ton years - probably had no knowledge that they had been preceded.

The following pages are excerpts from documentation that we have concerning some early visits and knowledge of the Cavern. On some pages, footnotes reflecting current knowledge have been added to the source material,

'No report of this type would be complete without touching upon the presence in the Cavern of James Larkin White. For years many have credited Jim White with being the discoverer. To the best of our knowledge, Jim White made no active claim to discovery although neither did he go out of his way to stop others from claiming it for him. This in no way should tarnish his reputation as explorer and promoter, for that is completely justified.

The legend of Jim White as discoverer evidently dates back to a barbeque at the Washington Ranch in the early 1920's. Dr. Willis T. Lee,, hoping to promote the Carlsbad Cavern, had invited a great crowd of newspapermen and dignitaries to a free tour of the Cavern. Afterwards, they met at the ranch for the barbeque, When the meal was finished,, speech.-making was in order and various notables rose to eulogize Dr. Lee for his "Discoveries" and work in the Cavern. Some of the local residents apparently felt that Dr. Lee was tacitly accepting too much credit for things he hadn't actually discovered himself.

Note: We are indebted to Carl Livingston (Lee's assistant) for recording what followed:

"Among the big crowd of old settlers present were two who also could speak, but they were not on the program, nor had they been in the cavern that day. These were Bob Dow and the late Col. Etionne de Pillesier Bujac father of Bruce Cabot, the movie actor. Both men were old residents of Carlsbad. Bujac was a silver-tongued orator of the old school. 'When he talked he brought in the honeysuckles, the bees and the mocking birds, and he could hold an audience spell-bound with the eloquence of his oratory. Bob Dow was no slouch as a speaker, himself, and the two hatched an idea. The speaking was about through, Colonel Bujac was called upon and from then on took the place of the toastmaster. Bob Dow stepped forward and said, 'Mr. Toastmaster, I suggest that we hear a word from Jim White.' This started a shout from the hungry mob who had not come in on the barbecue 'We want to hear from Jim White.' Then a great silence fell over the crowd. At this Dr. Lee had a funny look. 'Who Is this Jim White?' a general asked a governor. The governor whispered 'A working person at the Cavern, so whispered Dr. Lee.'

Of course, Colonel Bujac responded, taking up his cue. "Your excellencies, I take pleasure in introducing to you the friend of my youth and comrade of all time, an unassuming cowboy with who I have ridden over the sun-kissed plains-JIM WHITE, THE DISCOVERER OF THE FIRST EXPLORER OF THE CARLSBAD CAVERN!’

.... Those forty newspaper men and women ate it up. Jim just about stole the show from Dr. Lee. Arid while the Cavern was well known to many old residents of Eddy County years before Jim ever set foot in it, he has ever since been credited with first discovering it.”

The legend was spread for many years by both the Park Service and the Cavern Supply Company. In our records we have NPS literature through 1936 which cites Jim White as discoverer. Literature sold by the Cavern Supply Company as late as 1941 likewise refers to Jim as discoverer*

*Livingston Carl B., "The Eighth Wonder".
New Mexico Magazine
March, 1934.
__________________________

Abijah ("Bije") Long claims to have been the discoverer, finding the mall hole above the Bat Cave while out exploring with Sam Evans and a Mr. Brown. He also says he found the natural entrance the next morning by seeing the bats enter it,

His second trip to the cave was allegedly made with Andy Fairchild and Jacob Lynn with the express purpose of exploring it. Long claims that an three went back into the Bat Gave, saw the guano there, and then returned to town so he could file a mining claim.

It is interesting to compare Long's version with those of Sublett and Hannsz NB
Source: Book–
Long, Abijah & Long, Joe N.
1966 - Seventh Edition
The Big Cave

-----------------------------------
"In justice to myself I state unconditionally that I an the original discoverer of what is known as the Carlsbad Caverns. By this term I do not claim that I discovered the hole in the surface of the ground first, for it had been known years prior to the time it was entered,, but I do claim that I am the first man to penetrate what is known as the Carlsbad Caverns and to discover something of its wonders and grandeur underneath the earth."

"About the month of July 1902, Abijah Long came to me where I was employed and asked me if I would go with him into the mountains. I agreed to go and did go with him. Andy Fairchild and Rose (sic) Sublett also went along with him...We were primarily an a hunting trip and had a camping outfit."

"We went to the opening of the Carlsbad Cavern which was a hole in the ground that a good many people had known about for years and we decided to explore it…I was let down on a rope…I did discover, however, indication of large deposits of bat manure or guano. This guano was of a soft nature and it would have been impossible for an animal or man either to have walked about in the cavern on this guano without making clear tracks. I now state that there was no indication of any tracks In the cavern at that time",

Note: Mr. Hannsz was the brother-in-law of Abijah ("Bije") Long, and worked for him as a supervisor in the early guano mining. NB

Source: Letter
Written by: Charles J. Hannsz of Haskell County., Texas
Certified by: Notary Public
Dates 24 NOV 30
_________________________

"This cave was first discovered by Bije Long, who gave a man by the name of Fairchild (sp?) $5,00 to go in it. He was lowered by a ropes, but became frightened before going far and was pulled out."

"Then Jim White was lot down and penetrated it to a considerable depth.”

This sounds as if the writer had heard confused Stories even at this early date. NB

Source: Newspaper Article
The Carlsbad Current
Beautiful Sights in Bat Cave West of Carlsbad 1,800 Feet Underground
Date: September 22, 1915

_________________________

“At the Bat Flight Program, May 14 an oldster, John L. Hess from Higgins, Texas, responded to the historical phase of the talk by reminiscing about his knowledge of the area. He claimed that some of his friends made an attempt to explore the caverns In 1902. PA maintained that at that time the caverns had not been explored. but that the entrance to it was widely known....Mr. Hess lived an a ranch some fifteen miles northeast of the Cavern entrance and had been all over this country, but know nothing about Jim White.”

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: John L. Hess of Higgins, Texas
Interviewed by: Ernst Christensen Senior Guide
Date: May 15, 1944
__________________________

“On July 25, 1946 Mr. & Mrs. R. E. Miller of Hammond Indiana went through the caverns. During that trip it was discovered that Mrs., Miller's aunt, Miss Chloe Williamson, Route #3, Valparaiso, Indiana, visited Carlsbad Caverns, and took a trip through them, when she was a girl of 16, in the year 1901 .... The trip to the cave was made from a nearby ranch on burros."

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: Mrs. R.N. Miller of Hammond Indiana
Interviewed by: Brad McGraw, Park Guide
Date: July 27, 1946

_________________________

Forehand claimed that he was in the Cavern in 1898, He says, “I was the first fellow to know bats were in it. All the old stockmen know the cave but didn't know about the bats. I was working on top near Oak Springs with another man, cutting sotol for cattle food"

Note: John Forehand was one of the early guano miners working for “Bije" Long.

NPS source:
Personal Interview: Mr. John Forehand interviewed by Mr. Tom Meador, Speleohistorian
Date: July 28, 1867

__________________________
Jim White Sr., told his son that his first entry was in 1898 but it got started as 1901 so he just lot It go on. Jim, Jr. feels that probably his father went In "just a little ways" in 1898.

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: Jim White, Jr.
Date: June 1966

------------------------------------------------
“Most Important is his declaration that from the years 1898 through 1904 was the greatest guano mining activity in the Carlsbad Caverns. He recalled this particular period of activity definitely, for mining was in progress while he was away at school."

At the time of the interview, Mr. Tansill was "possibly in his early sixties.” Although the dates he gives for guano mining may be correct, It was almost certainly In some other cave than this one. Also in a taped interview recorded 17 years later (20 FEB 63) by David Karraker and Ken Baker, Mr. Tansill admitted that he had little knowledge of the Carlsbad Cavern. In fact, he maintained vehemently that the natural entrance had been blasted out by the Park Service. NB

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: Robert W. Tansill
Interviewed by: Bennett T. Gale, Park Naturalist
Date: December 3, 1946

_________________________

The paper had an article on "Malaga" which mentions a cave.

... There is, also, a short distance from the stations a large limestone cave, known as the 'Bat' Caves from the almost innumerable number of bats that make it their home."

Source: Newspaper Article
Eddy Argus
Date: June 18, 1892

------------------------------------------------
This article is a description of a large cave and tells the story of a hoax in which two men claim to have found a petrified led man in that cave in NOV 1892

Although for years It was thought that this article referred to the Carlsbad Cavern, Speleohistorian Tom Meador had since definitely proved that it actually was McKittrick Gave. This source is included here to show how easy it is to confuse Carlsbad Cavern with other nearby eaves in historical references.(bold added 5/2001) It is quite possible that many old- who claim to have been in our Cavern were actually in another. NB

Source: Newspaper Article
Eddy Daily Current
An Underground Wonder
by Goding, Henry
Dates June 3, 1893

__________________________

Mr. Walters stated that by 1891 the Caverns had become rather well known among inhabitants of this area. In that year, 1891, Lucius Anderson, sometimes more commonly known as Grandpa Anderson, killed a deer near the site of the ticket office (now demolished). While dressing the deer, the bats came from the cavern and he watched the spectacle. This, according to Walters' knowledge, was the first time the cavern entrance was reported.

Source: not cited


-------------------------------------------------

“Caverns entrance and the bat shafts are located in section 31 of Township 24 South., Range 25 East."

“The earliest plat of the township found was a map drawn by or Alfred H. Warren from a survey conducted July 10 to 16, 1884. This survey, for subdivision,, sections, purposes was made on request of a settler on the township, one Pantaloon Martin who paid $449.00 to the General Land Office for the work .... No mention is made on the map of the Caverns entrance nor of the Bat Cave. It does seem probable; however, that the entrance was noted at this time for the south boundary of Section 31 is a Range line. Any survey for subdivision purposes would have to run along Township and Range lines regardless of how desultory e survey of the inner sections. This would place the surveyor within one-half mile of the Cavern entrance."

“There were several early settlers in the Township and information concerning them follows:
1885 - William H. Hardy, 40 acres, Section 20, 1 ½ miles away.
1885 - Thomas J. Moseley, Section 4
1888 - Charles H. Dehuke, Section 4
1889 - H.W. Thaxton, Section 4

1900 - James C. Keith, Section 19, 2 miles away
1900 - Henry E. Robb, Section 20, 1 ½ to 2 miles away

Source: Land Office Records
Memo for the Superintendent as a result of search of records of the Office of the Bureau of Land Management, Las Cruces, New Mexico. By: Bennett T. Gale, Park Naturalist
Date: February 6, 1947

-----------------------------------------------
2006 Update Note: (1946--U.S. Grazing Service and General Land Office merged to form the Bureau of Land Management– Remember that Robert Holley, who lead the April/May 1923 expedition of the caverns, was a General Land Office--GLO-- “mineral examiner” stationed in Roswell. The expedition was done at the request of the NPS in Washington D.C. who were interested in finding out more about the cavern. Jim White guided this expedition; Holley did a report. Our CAVE brochure has an excerpt of the Holley quote in which he try to express the caverns in words. Holley recommended national monument status for this area, even fore Willis T/ Lee did.--Bob Hoff, June 2006)
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In an interview Mr. Torian told the newspaper that be had seen the big entrance hole into the Cavern in the 1880's "but had no idea that there was a woundrous cavern there." Mr. Torian claimed to be 103 at the time of the interview. NB

Source: Newspaper Article
Person Concerned: H.D. Torian, West Memphis, Arkansas
Carlsbad Current Argus
Date: April 21, 1963
__________________________

Carrera claimed that his father, J.C. Carrera, saw the entrance more than 65 years ago (before 1885). A sheepman told him about it and took Carrera and a geologist to see the entrance. They had no rope so they did not enter.
Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: P.E. Carrera of El Paso

Date: Circa 1950
__________________________

Mr. Shattuck claimed that on the evening of 2 AUG 1885, he and his father saw bats coming out of the cave. They went over and looked into hole, but didn't enter, He in sure of the date because something of importance happened to him less than a week later.

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: Ned Shattuck
Interviewed by: Dale Giese, Park Guide
Date: Circa 1960

-----------------------------------------------

'This is to certify that I. Rolth Sublett, of Artesia, New Mexico, Route No. 1, first visited what Is now known as Carlsbad Caverns in 1883 when 1 was twelve years of age. I went down the bats stayed. The cave was known as the Bat Cave. My father, William Caldwell Sublett was with me.”

“The next time I visited the cave was in 1900; it was in the fall. Bige Long and his father-in-law, whose name I do not recall, were with me. I showed them the Bat Gave, and they went back to the town of Eddy. After Long and his brothers- in-law left I went over close to Walnut Springs to we in Walnut Canyon an old Mexican who was about 83 years of age. He was not there and I came on in to the town of Eddy. That night I got in town and saw the old Mexican who was in Bige Long’s saloon and drunk. He told me Bige Long had given him a quart of whiskey and $5.00 for his rights to the cave.”.

According to Speleohistorian. Dr. William Halliday Sublett would actually have been five years old in 1883. NB

Source: Affidavit
Sworn to by: Rolth Sublett
Witnessed by: D.S. Libbey, Caverns Superintendent
Date: October 2, 1947
_________________________

The newspaper printed a letter from Mr. Angell in which he states: "I want to state that I ate (cake?)my birthday with W.L. Netherlin and family in that cave (CaCa) in December - forty years ago now - which was the year 1883, and we were not the original discoverers, either. We however, only explored the cave for a distance of about a quarter of a mile, as we did not have proper lights to make further exploration."

Source: Newspaper Article
Person Concerned: W.H. Angell of Carlsbad
Carlsbad Argus
Date: January 4, 1924
_________________________

Harrison was one of the early settlers in this area, establishing a ranch at Rattlesnake Springs in June, 1880. He died in Carlsbad in July of 1931. According to the paper which carried his obituary, Harrison "recalled a visit to the vast arched entrance(CaCa) in 1882, but did not attempt to enter the cave."

Source: Newspaper Article
Person Concerned: William Henry (Hank) Harrison
Carlsbad Newspaper
Date: Circa 1931

------------------------------------------------

“... certainly it (CaCa) was well known in the 70's(added 1870s, 5/2001). My uncle built his ranchhouse close to the cavern's mouth in that year and It was spoken of as a well-known land mark then.”

Carl Livingston was Dr. Lee' it assistant in the 1924 National Geographic expedition. He had lived most of his life in this area and knew it intimately. NB

Source: Magazine Article
Now Mexico Magazine
Livingston, Carl
Other Man's Bones
Date: January 1924

Note: June 2006--Carl Livingston wrote several articles aboutthe area; see in the library. BH

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"According to Mr. Hartshorne, guano was mined as early as 1880...He claims that the first load of guano was shipped out an the J.J. Hagerman, Railroad in 1881.

Almost certainly this does not refer to mining in the Carlsbad Cavern. In fact. it is interesting to note that the earliest mining claim specifying guano now known is an 1899 claim to -what was apparently Goat Cave in Slaughter Canyon. NB

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: Mr. Hartshorne
-4390 Triggs St. Los Angeles, Cal.
Interviewed by: Ernst Christensen
Acting Park Naturalist
Date: October 17, 1946

-------------------------------------------------

According to the article, Mr. Williams, then aged 77, made a tour of the Cavern. He then claimed that in 1877 he was attached to Troop M of the 8th Cavalry, stationed at Fort Bascom. He said they were chasing Indians through this area. covering territory about the Canadian and Pecos Rivers. They found many caves, including one where the huge entrance makes him think it was CaCa. He says a party entered, went a short distance, and “disturbed the bats".

There are of course. many other caves near here, such as Gunsight Gave, which have even larger entrances than Caca, NB

Source: Newspaper Article
Person Involved: Capt. Addison M. Williams, Santa Fe
Carlsbad Argus
Date: October 21, 1929

_________________________

1994 Bob Hoff Interview with Jim White, Jr.

August 31, 1994 (date of interview): Bob Hoff Interview With Mr. Jim White, Jr.From: History Leads and Resources , 94-14
September 2, 1994
Jim White, Tom Boles, pilot Amelia Earhart, and neighboring ranchers; Earhart visited the caverns in September 1928 See another picture in "Carlsbad Caverns--The Early Years" by Nymeyer and Halliday, p:131
Note: In this interview, Jim White, Jr. remembers his Dad going into the caverns in 1901. Back in 1984, Tom Meador, a spleo-historian very interested in documenting the history, as well as personally collecting historical documents relating to CAVE history, discovered a cave inscription reading "1898-J. White" up toward the caverns entrance. Other sources indicate other dates of entrance and other people maybe entering first. Nothing is definite for a "first human entry" fact for CAVE that I am currently aware of. Personally, as an interpreter, I explained the diversity of theories (which is real history not quite in the slick page textbooks). In my opinion, the best bet is saying "around the turn of the century" for the first non-native-Americans who encountered the entrance. Dave Kayser is an expert on native-American chronology. BH

Last week I received a call from Mr. Jim Dunwoody of San Diego, California. He said that his dad, Sam Dunwoody, had gone into the cave in the "old days" with Jim White. Planning a visit this October, Mr. Dunwoody wanted to know if there was anyone still alive from that general period with whom he could talk
.
I called Mr. Jim White, Jr. and explained the situation to him. He agreed to receive a letter from Mr. Dunwoody. I also asked Mr. White if I could conduct an oral history interview with him and he agreed.

I met Mr. Jim White, Jr. at his home on August 31, 1994 at 10:00 in the morning. He was very friendly and hospitable. In his living room hangs a large picture of his dad and Arthur Mayes, a local rancher years ago. (Arthur Mayes was grandfather to former employees Dolie Bond and father-in-law to Cal Miller, a Park Ranger who served here in the late 1920's, early 1930's, and in the 1950's as Assistant Superintendent.)

 Mr. White showed me several Jim White Life Story books, some postcards, photographs, corres- pondence, and a few newspaper clippings. He showed me a 1946 petition for Jim White's remains to be buried near the natural entrance. Petitioners were required to sign number of years as residents of New Mexico, and the year that they went down in the guano bucket. I wonder what the "guano bucket certification" had to do with such a petition.

I talked with Mr. White until 11:45 a.m. The tape recorder was turned off several times when he asked me to follow him to some pictures or books. What follows are paraphrased comments which Mr. White made. I asked him to state his full name, birthplace, and birthday.

He responded James Larkin White Jr., Carlsbad, New Mexico, March 23, 1913. (NOTE: he told me later that Larkin was the name of his grandfather). (He had told me on the phone previously that when his mother gave birth to him, she went into town, gave birth, and returned to their "shack by the Bat Cave" within three-four days.) Mr. White lived at the cave, with some periods being spent in town, until he was 15 or 17.

He said that they didn't have any water in those days and had to haul it from Oak Springs (a couple twenty gallon cans on a burro.) When Jim White, Sr. went to work at Oak Springs, he would take the burro with him, fill the cans, and turn the burro loose to find its own way home. Fannie, Jim's wife, would empty the cans into a barrel. Electricity came sometime between 1929 and 1930 when the power plant was built[1] and one of the guano companies purchased electricity from the National Park Service for their operation. The electricity was turned on at 6 a.m. and off at 11 p.m.

Mr. White remembers when he was five or six having a tutor for a year or so at the cave and then being taught school in a tent by the wife of one of the Rangers. In later years he would attend school in Carlsbad during the winter, staying with friends. He said, "I was about as bad as my dad; I didn't get too much education. Because you have to figure I got smarter than the school teachers--and I quit school."

Jobs he held: he worked in the mines (as a kid). He served in the Air Force stateside from Sept 12, 1942-Feb 24, 1946 with most of his service at Kirtland Air Force Base, Albuquerque. He ran the book concession with his dad until Jim White, Sr. died in April, 1946, and then with his mother. The book sales were good in the summer, but sometimes in the winter he would drive all the way out from Carlsbad and sell only one or two books.

After the service, he worked as a pipe fitter (primarily) and plumber three to four years) in Washington State and throughout California. He also worked at the Nevada atomic bomb test site and came to Carlsbad to work in the early 1960's when his Mother was ill, prior to passing away. After some more work in Tucson, Arizona, he returned to Carlsbad and worked as a dispatcher at the Ivestor's Bus Co. for eight years. He retired in 1984.

When I told Jim White, Jr. that we had a picture of him in the guano bucket with Elizabeth Lee (in 1924 during the National Geographic sponsored expedition), he said "I was in love with her. I was about five or six years old and I really thought a lot of her."

I asked him about his first impressions of the cave. Did there come a day when his dad took him in the cave? He replied that in went in when he was about 5 or 6, at the time Willis, Dana, and Elizabeth Lee were there.

He also remembered that Vernon Bailey, the Department of Agriculture biologist who wrote on the natural history of the Caverns, used to show him bats that he was dissecting for study.

Jim White, Jr. remembers that after one guano mining company shut down, he and another kid named Cap Best sacked up some guano, loaded it in the back of a pickup, and took it to town to sell, mainly as grass fertilizer. He also remembers a "dry dock" at White City for drying out bat guano prior to shipment.

He could also remember riding a guano wagon down the hill to White City. The hill going up to the Cavern was so steep that only one type of car--"a Baby Overland" manufactured by the Willys Co.--could drive forward up the hill (WOW!!, A car that could live up to its name: Overland, not Baby) The Model T car, with its gravity-fed fuel pump had to back up the hill. (Can you imagine the employee van having to back up the Big Hill? Not with me in it!) As a child, Jim White, Jr. was afraid of the hill.

I asked him if his Dad had talked much to him and his mom about the cave. He said, " Oh yeah, he didn't talk much period, but he was interested in that cave. That was his life. He spent his life out there.

He remembers that his dad worked for every bat fertilizer company that owned the Bat Cave. In 22 years, there were ten or twelve companies that owned the Bat Cave mining rights. Mr. Jim White Jr. remembered that the guano was shipped to California for use on the orange groves and he concluded, based on the frequency with which the guano mining interests changed hands, that the bat guano mining operation wasn't too profitable for anyone.

He also remembers that the last guano mining company had a mill in Carlsbad and that they mixed sulfur and guano for transportation, though Jim White, Jr. Has no explanation for the use of a sulfur/guano combination product.

I asked him about his dad wearing cowboy boots in the cave (we all recognize the inappropriateness of cowboy boot footwear in the cave today). He said that his Dad wore a "cowboy shoe," a lace up high top shoe. (Harold West says that today such footwear are called "lacers"--such boots probably gain nothing in traction over cowboy boots, but allow more ankle support).

I asked him to describe his dad's personality and told him that I had always pictured him as not much of a talker. He said that, "he was quiet; whenever he said something, he meant it."

He said that when people came by his dad would take them down in the cave. At first he didn't charge them anything, then he started charging them $2 a person. If they didn't have any money, he would take them anyway.

He quoted his dad as saying he thought of the cave "as a hell of a hole in the ground," but added that his dad couldn't see as much in those days as you can see now because of the lights. He also added that when they came out with the Coleman lanterns, you could see it pretty good. He thought that when the use of the Coleman lanterns first started, every fifth person in a group carried one. I asked him if he could remember when the Coleman lanterns came out and he said when he was a "good size kid."

In the Bat Cave they used old carbide miner lights. (NOW READ CLOSELY) They let a burro in a harness down into the cave on Monday and didn't bring it up until Saturday. It pulled the mining carts down in the cave.

He remembered that most of the mined guano came out of the west shaft, not the east one. His Dad said that when he went into the Bat Cave, the guano was piled up so high that he could just about touch the ceiling with his hat.

I asked him about the names of any men that his dad worked with and used the example "Dave Mitchell." He said that he knew Dave Mitchell real well, that he was a nice guy, and that outside of his father, Jim White, Sr. Dave Mitchell knew more about the cave than anybody else in the country. (Note: Dave Mitchell started in the NPS at the age of 37 in July of 1927 as a per diem Guide, making $4 a day. In his 30 year career, he also served as Assistant Chief Ranger, Laborer, and Pumpman).

I asked him about Superintendent Tom Boles. He remembered when they came in, how they arrived (train), the stone house built for Boles over by the present day Albertson's, and the Boles' daughter's name (Margaret) When Boles first arrived, he and Jim White didn't get along worth a d---. But then they became close friends. Tom Boles was a pallbearer at Jim White's funeral. Jim White Jr. added that Boles was a "picture-taking dude. He took nine million pictures."

I told Mr. White that today we don't know who "discovered the cave first." He responded that a lot of old-timers have seen that hole. He said that Ned Shattuck had gone by there.

He reported witnessing several return bat flights and added that there used to be a lot of bats, but now there aren't many, probably due to dryness.

I asked him if he thought that his dad was attracted to the Cavern entrance by bats and he said "yes." He added that he thought that his Father and some Mexican employees were building a fence for the Lucas Brothers Ranch. He said that the Lucas Ranch was located where the Washington Ranch is today.

He said that his dad went into the cave, not because he was brave, but because he was curious about where the bats were coming from. He believes the year was 1901.
I asked him if he thought his dad went in the cave, in the earlier years, alone or with others. He said that he mostly went alone. He related that he went into the cave for three days with a Mexican kid named "Pothead." He added that his Dad found two human skeletons above the King's Palace and Queen's Chamber near Iceberg Rock and the set of wooden stairs (top of Appetite Hill?) He brought out the skulls and gave them to Doctors Pate and Culpepper. He doesn't know what ever happened to them. His dad told him that he had found the skeletons there, but that he had no idea how they got there.

He reported that his dad never should have gotten the Chief Ranger job in the first place since he wasn't qualified for it. Jim White, Sri.. and Colonel Tom Boles argued a lot when Jim resigned his job, expecting a "Chief Explorer" job offer in its place. Jim White, Jr. said that his dad was expecting that position to be offered, but it never was. At that time, White and Boles weren't getting along too good. But once Jim White, Sri.. began selling books in the underground lunchroom, he and Boles started getting along better.

The only person that Jim White, Jr. didn't like in the NPS was Superintendent Don Libbey[2], who he felt hassled his family about the book concession.[3] Eventually, the strictness of the regulations governing the book sales resulted in Jim White, Jr. abandoning this book selling enterprise.

Frank Ernest Nicholson never explored anything in the cave that Jim White, Sr. hadn't already discovered. He wrote the Jim White Story for Charlie White to satisfy his room and board bill at White City, run up during his stay there during the Nicholson "Expedition" in the cave in 1930. Charlie White printed the book and retained half the copyright.

I asked him if he thought that Frank Ernest Nicholson had exaggerated some of his dad's cave stories. He said that it was possible. He added that, "to sell a book, you have to fire it up a little bit; I imagine that is what Nicholson was doing."
The names Cal Miller and Arthur Mayes came up. As a civilian, Carroll (Cal) Miller built the first parking lot at the national monument with mules. He went to work with NPS after that. Came back to Carlsbad Caverns as the Assistant Superintendent in the 1950s. He married Amelia Mayes; her daddy, Arthur Mayes, owned a ranch five miles south of the Washington Ranch. Jim White, Sr. and Arthur Mayes were very good friends (Jim White Jr. has a picture of his Dad and Arthur Mayes hanging in his living room. As a child, Jim White Jr. used to stay at the Mayes Ranch, visiting his friend, John Mayes).

I asked about his mom. She was born in Brady, Texas. She came to Lone Tree, N.M. at the age of the 4. Her Dad was a jailer and a deputy sheriff. She was the cook at the cave.

Jim White's sister, Roxie, was taught by Charlie White at one time. Roxie's married name was Weaver. Another sister to Jim White, Sr., Rosa, married Mr. Henry Samples, who started driving a water wagon before the streets were paved. Later, he was a night watchman, sheriff, policeman for many years.

Lige Hill, brother to Fanny Hill, (and future brother-in-law to Jim White, Sri..), was a caving friend of Jim White, Sri.. He died in a Veteran's Hospital in Brownsville, Texas. In Carlsbad, Lige or his dad kept a pet bear which Lige would wrestle.
Another brother, Fannie Hill's half-brother, Wiley Hill, was a right hand man for Uncle Bill Washington at the Washington Ranch. Wiley's nickname was "Wild-Horse." I asked Jim White, Jr. if "Wild-Horse" had ever been involved in a bat guano bucket accident that I seemed to recall. He said no, but that Wild-Horse once got sent to the state penitentiary for stealing mules, but only spent a short time in residence because Fannie and Wild-Horse's Dad, who was a jailer, managed to get him out fairly quickly.

A brother to Jim White, Sr. Xury Haskel White (born August 13, 1876 in Parker County, Texas), in later life became a probate judge. Accord- ing to Jim White, Jr., Xury always had poor eyesight ("he wasn't blind, but he couldn't see too good.") Xury not only went into the cave, but for a time he and his wife lived at the Caverns (Mr. Jim White, Jr. wasn't sure who Xury was working for).

I asked him if he knew about the time his dad had helped recover the body of a cave guide killed in an accident in Ogle Cave in 1915.[4] I had forgotten the victim's name, but he remembered "Sorrells" being the last name and I then remembered the rest of the name: "William Lafayette." He said that his Dad had a sister, Iva Dell (born March 22, 1994 in San Angelo, Texas), who married Golden Mode Sorrells, so the young victim--William Lafayette Sorrells was related to Jim White, Sr.'s brother-in-law.

I told him that I had the impression from reading documents concerned with the selling of the book on Jim White's life that she was a good business woman and asked him what he thought. He said, "No, not really."

We discussed the permit to sell those Jim White books in the underground lunchroom and how the terms changed through the years. He said that the initial agreement between his parents and the National Park Service was only oral. When Jim White Jr. took over the operation, the summer sales were great. But in the winter, sometimes he would drive all the way out from Carlsbad and sell only one or two books. When Superintendent Don Libbey arrived in June of 1946 to replace the transferred Superintendent Tom Boles (two months after Jim White's death), the operating regulations for the book concession seemed to get stricter and Mr. Jim White, Jr. lost interest in continuing selling his Dad's life story book.

The subject again turned to the Lees in general, then Elizabeth in particular. He remembered Elizabeth taking him throughout the cave to play with.


I asked him about his Dad supervising the building of the 216 steps wooden staircase straight into the Natural Entrance in 1925. He remembers Dave Mitchell, a caving friend of Jim White, Sr., who would later work for the National Park Service for 30 years beginning in 1928, as the primary builder. He also remembers Mitchell building the steps from the bottom and with each step installed, the young White's dog would get up on it. He also remembers, as a kid, sliding down the bannister of this staircase "like a bat out of hell."

A government man visited the cave around 1927 or 1928 and broke his leg in the Left Hand Tunnel. Jim White, Jr. said there wasn't any phone in the cave so he was dispatched to climb back out to get a phone call to Dr. Glazer from the ticket office at the Entrance. He took all available shortcuts, didn't stay on the trail, and made it out in 18 minutes.

When I asked him if he had ever heard of any other accidents in the cave, he said, "Old Jack Rupe's dad got killed down there working on the trail." (March 14, 1951--Mr. Earl Rupe)

I asked him to confirm or deny the story in Carlsbad Caverns: The Early Years about the 1924 barbecue at the Washington Ranch after the completion of the National Geographic sponsored expedition. Local folks were getting increasingly alarmed about the credit "outsider" Willis T. Lee was getting about the cave and its discoveries. Colonel Etienne Bujac then introduced Jim White to the crowd as the first discoverer of the cave. He confirmed it.

Around 1930 Colonel Bujac, a lawyer, tried to help Jim White by writing letters to influential people to get Jim the Chief Explorer job he felt that he had been promised when he resigned as the Chief Ranger.

Incidentally, Bujac's son was Bruce Cabot, a Hollywood actor of some renown in the "olden" days. In the early 1930s Colonel Bujac committed suicide in the backyard of his home, near to the Pecos River. (Just down the street from where Jim White, Jr. lives today) Jim White Jr. Said that Colonel Bujac was "a hell of a guy."

I asked him how his dad felt about the National Park Service in later years after not getting the Chief Explorer job. He said that after he got to selling books down there, he got over being angry at them (euphemism supplied).

U.S. Senator Dennis Chavez helped Jim White, Sr. to get the book- selling permit. According to Jim White, Jr. Senator Chavez warned the NPS that he was going to get Jim White the whole park concession operation even though White just wanted the book selling operation. Under this political pressure, the NPS gave Jim White, Sri.. the book selling permit and Senator Chavez backed off the threat of getting the whole concession operation for Jim White, Sr. I asked Jim White, Jr. if Chavez did that because he thought his dad deserved it. He replied, "yes and because he was a good friend." The agreement was oral at first according to Jim White, Jr., and was to cover his Dad's and Mom's lifetime at $1.00 year.

I asked if his Dad ever said anything about naming the formations. He agreed with me that he probably named a lot of them.

He showed me a picture of a man named Ert Haney. His first job in the NPS was to build the rock Superintendent's house by where Albertson's grocery store came later. Haney worked a number of years in the NPS and his wife worked in the nursery.

I asked him if he knew what ever happened to the original guano bucket. He relied, "It's in Charlie Duggers' garage. I gave it to him." He identified Charlie Duggers as a grandson of Charlie White. I asked him if this was the same guano bucket he used in the underground lunchroom when they were selling books and he said, "yes."

He volunteered that two original "Jim White Story" books cost him $40.00 in a Santa Fe garage sale, located by Franklin Smith, an ex-NPS employee.

He told me that his dad couldn't get anyone to go into the cave with him except the Mexican kid. He told me that his dad spoke pretty good Mexican and others did too since there were many Mexican people around.

He thinks that his dad probably took about a month getting ready to go into the cave the first time "because he knew that he was going to go in there and see what the hell was in there--curious."

Jim White, Sr. and the Mexican kid, referred to as Pothead, went into the King's Palace and Queen's Cham- ber areas, as well as the Big Room. They took a great big ball of string to string out behind them so that they could find their way out.

He broke off the stalactites as markers to get out occurred on the first trip.
Jim White, Jr. had never heard the story about his Dad losing his light, then running full steam into a cave formation.
Jim White Jr. saw what was left of the skeleton bones in the cave after his dad gave the bones to Doctors Pate and Culpepper. He said that his Dad never had any idea of how the bones got there, but he found them.

I enjoyed the hour and a half that I spent talking to Mr. Jim White, Jr.


[1] Copy of the National Register of Historic Places Nomination form, Section: Bldg. 10, in History Leads and Resources, 92.02
[2] Superintendent, CCNP:June 28, 1946 - April 1, 1951 from Historic Listing of National Park Service Officials, U.S. Department of the Interior, May 1, 1986
[3] Note: Libbey arrived approximately 2 months after Jim White's death.
[4] On a Sunday afternoon, some sightseers came by, asking for him to guide. His Mom didn't want him to go, but he did, and on the trip, a rock struck his head from above. Also see "History Leads & Resources, 92.02 (November 4, 1992)

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Jim White, Jr. above, sitting to my right, turned 87 in March of this year. He is a great friend to the park and a super resource. See post about an interview I did with him about his father.

I hope to set this up as a VIP doing most of my computer work at home with Dave Thomas as my VIP supervisor. Always defer to your supervisors about "contradictory" information that may appear in any thing that I write (I will admit that during "multi-tasking" I sometimes contradict myself, but I can come to an agreement of my mind after checking my sources (me). I don't expect too many contradictions; I am a much wider (er..wiser) and refined hombre now and see the futility of being negative much clearer than I did in my early days.

I can also try to field caverns history questions at:

hoff_bob2003@yahoo.com

Please insert "CAVE Question" in the subjects line When I send you a reply, I also plan to send a cc: to Rueben, Ted, Paula, the Secreatay of Interior (NOT), and Dave T. so that they are aware of what we are discussing; maybe they will want to get involved in some of the discussions, no?

Surprise Link:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052948/ Find out who played "Gertrude the Duck" in the 1959, partially filmed at the caverns, Journey to the Center of the Earth.

Blog address on web:

http://carlsbadcavernshistory.blogspot.com/