Jim White, April 19, 1924, posing beside an interesting looking stalagmite, no?

Bob Hoff

11/4/11

Fannie White

Have you seen this picture of Jim White and his wife Fannie? She is the

woman to his left. Jim White died in 1946 so this picture must be around

that time. She later remarried a man named Barron.

Today she is laid to rest along side Jim in the Carlsbad Cemetery on Boyd

Avenue.

It must have been very sad for her to see Jim put so much effort into the

exploration of the cave, the work to make it accessible, and the promotion

of it and to see his contributions marginalized due to other circumstances.

Bob Hoff

10/20/11

Do You Remember if Jim White, Jr. had a son?

Does anyone remember a ceremony at the Natural Entrance
(around 10+ years ago) amphitheater during which a grandson
of Jim White was honored with a commemorative plaque?

A friend (and former co-employee) remembers something to this
effect, but isn't sure of when or the the full details. I have a partial
memory of such an event, but my details are skimpy at  best.

I realize now that I am not sure if Jim White, Jr. had a second
wife or just just married once. I knew Marguerite White who
was either his only wife or his second wife. Another faint
recollection I  have is that he and Marguerite were married
60+ years so they certainly may have had children, right?

Do you know if Jim Jr.had a son (a grandson to Jim, Sr.)
I will check at the The Family History Center here in town
soon to see what they know?

Thanks.

Bob Hoff
10/16/11

Mitzi Haney Gorden

SHANTY TOWN MEMOIR

WOMAN RECALLS CHILDHOOD IN SHACK HOUSE

By Valerie Cranston--Special to the Current-Argus
Posted: 04/25/2009 06:13:31 PM MDT

Published in The Carlsbad Current-Argus April 26, 2009

It may seem strange that anyone could wax nostalgic about growing up in a place called Shantytown.

For Mitzi (Haney) Gorden, however, a recent trip to the site of the Shantytown where she grew up brought back many happy memories of life at Carlsbad Caverns, where her father worked.

The place known as Shantytown was located on the ridge above the natural cave entrance of the caverns, before the Civilian Conservation Corps built the stone buildings seen today at the national park.

Recently, Gordon shared memories of growing up at the caverns, her friendship with the White family and relationship with the caverns' first superintendent, Col. Tom Boles. She also visited the stone house her family lived in at the caverns for many years.

"This is the first time I've been back in the house. I'm grateful it is still here," Gorden said, noting the many memories flip-flopping in her mind while sitting in what was once the family living room.

Her parents, Ert and Mitt Haney, came to Carlsbad from Yell County, Ark., in 1929. Gorden was born in 1933 at the old Eddy County Hospital located at the corner of Greene and Alameda streets. Her father's first job was working for contractor Tom Wilson building the river cobblestone house for the caverns' superintendent, which once stood at the far east end of the property where Albertson's is today.

Gorden's father later went to work for the National Park Service in the maintenance department, building trails and doing whatever was needed. He moved the family to Shantytown, a.k.a. Shack Town or Shanty Row, when Gorden was 6 months old. The shacks were tarpaper-covered clapboard structures.

Her father put up partitions to separate the bedroom, kitchen and living area. The six shacks, located where the tennis courts later stood, had electricity, water and three or four outhouses for all to share.

"I don't ever remember being cold in the shack. We had our own electricity until about 10 p.m. and then we had to use oil lamps," Gorden said, noting a fuel oil stove provided warmth.

Gorden's mother went to work helping Mrs. Peterson cook meals for cavern employees, and then helped Mrs. Baker in the nursery and kennel. Her mother went on to manage the nursery for 40 years and her father sang in the first Rock of Ages quartet.

"I hated working at the nursery," Gorden said.

Her mother wasn't allowed to plant flowers around the stone house, only cactus. However, she was allowed to have a garden plot at Rattlesnake Springs, which is the water source for the park. Oak Springs was the first original water source for the cave operations.

The family moved into the stone house when Gorden was 8 years old. Her brother Russell, 11 years her senior, survived the Bataan Death March during World War II only to die in a Japanese concentration camp.

Childhood memories for Gorden included riding sotol stem stick horses, bathing in a galvanized tub and roaming the hills every chance she got. As a teenager, she rode the horses stabled at the park. Often, in the evening, she and her friends would follow the water pipeline down to Rattlesnake Springs, share a picnic and swim in the swimming pool constructed by the CCC.

"I just roamed the hills and we made our own fun. I didn't know any different than living out there. It was wonderful. There was also a swimming hole near Washington Ranch that we called Clear Pool. It was a beautiful little place," she said.

At one time, wild burros roamed the residential area before Helen Kenecott, park secretary, complained and had them removed. Her husband Herb was the stay-at-home dad for their children and an outstanding photographer who photographed much of the park, Gorden explained.

"We weren't allowed to have any pets, and I wanted one so bad," she said. But she was told pets interfered with the wildlife.

At any given time, 13 to 14 children her age were living at the caverns. Her father had a panel truck with seats in the back and would drive the school-age children from the caverns to White's City where they caught the school bus into Carlsbad.

Gorden remembers the torrential rain and flooding in the early 1940s, which produced a 30-foot wall of water raging down Walnut Canyon, blocking access and damaging the road to the caverns.

"It was pouring down rain and Col. Boles told us we had to take the old guano mining road to get home. It rained so much there was water ankle deep in the shack," she said.

In high school, Gorden was in the Troubadors, and if she needed to stay after school, she either spent the night with her best friend, Coradene Page, or her father drove into town to pick her up.

Gorden lived at the caverns until she was 17 and then went to college in Las Cruces. She was acquainted with all the commercial bus drivers that stopped at the caverns, so she would get free rides to El Paso and back.

She met her future husband, Ralph Gorden, when she was 15. He came to work as a tour guide at the caverns and worked there for four years. They got married on her 20th birthday in 1953. They moved back east and Ralph became a radiation chemist for the National Bureau of Standards. They raised daughter, Shawn, twins, Russell and Ralph, and son, Timmy in Washington, D.C., and Maryland.

Gorden's parents moved into Carlsbad in the early 1960s. Her father died in 1968. In 1982, she moved back to Carlsbad to care for her mother, who died in 1985. Ralph came to Carlsbad in 1984, and died in 1988.

Talk of growing up at the caverns brought back so many memories for Gorden, such as her first pair of boots, which were white and bought for her by Jim White Sr. She remembered an Easter Sunday he left a big basket under the cedar tree in their frontyard when they were still living in the shack. White's wife, Fannie, was a good friend of Gorden's mother.

"I still have the baby doll he gave me on my 7th birthday," Gorden said.

"He and my dad were great friends and you might find them in the afternoon on one of their days off patronizing one of the local establishments at White's City or Carlsbad," she said, noting it was no secret they were drinking buddies.

Recently, Gorden donated her father's scrapbook along with various other paper and photo memorabilia to the Carlsbad Caverns historical collection.

Gorden didn't know Jim White Jr. very well growing up, but he and her brother were friends. When she moved back to Carlsbad in the early 1980s, she became good friends with the younger White and his wife, Marguerite.
"They were a big part of a group of great friends that kept me going after my husband died," Gorden said of her long-time relationship with the White family and Boles.

"Seems like I always knew Col. Boles. He loved young people and was an amateur photographer. He developed his own pictures and kept great albums. He sent me postcards from all over the country," Gorden said.

After Boles left the Carlsbad Caverns, he went to Hot Springs National Park in Arkansas. Gorden was visiting her aunt in Little Rock, and Boles invited her and a friend to spend the day, visit the hot springs and have a picnic with family in their backyard.

"I will always have the fondest memories of Col. Boles and all of my park service family. Carlsbad has always been home and I was homesick for 35 years," she said.

Gorden made many trips down into the caverns, either walking in the natural entrance or riding the elevator down just to eat lunch.

"Jim (White Sr.) let me down in the guano bucket and we walked a little ways," Gorden said, noting she stopped counting in high school after about 650 trips into the caverns.

"I'd love to be able to go one more time," Gorden said, still brimming with memories of her visit to the stone house.

Photo caption—
Mitzi (Haney) Gorden recently visited the stone house she grew up in at the Carlsbad Caverns. She s sitting on the terraced wall of the stone house she and her parents, Ert and Mitt Haney, called home for many years. Her recent visit to the stone house, now used for cavers and researchers, sparked a great many memories. Submitted photo

(L to R) Jim White, Amelia Earhart, two local ranchers (the Marks brothers), and Superintendent Tom Boles. The picture was taken in 1927 Read more about Amelia Earhart: Earhart on Wikipedia Check Jim White and Tom Boles labels for posts where they are mentioned.

Carl Livingston, Man of Many Interests--and Author of Wonderful Article on Jim White

A brochure from Carl Livingston's later years. The following are excerpts from Livingston's obituary as it appeared in the Santa Fe New Mexican on April 12, 1947. Interment services for Carl B. Livingston, legal advisor of the state oil conservation commission, who died suddenly Saturday of a heart attack, were to be held this afternoon at 3 at the family plot in the Carlsbad cemetery, Carlsbad. Funeral services were held at Memorial chapel here yesterday afternoon with the Rev. Joe B. Scrimshire in charge. Livingston, author, lecturer and lay archaeologist, was born near Carlsbad. He prepped at the Roswell Military Institute and then at Staunton Military academy in Virginia. A boy in a 10-gallon hat and high-heeled boots and fresh out of the cow country, he was amazed and puzzled at the consternation when it was found by the faculty that he packed a knife with an eight-inch blade. Livingston’s lifelong interest was in ceaseless roaming of the mountains of his native country, but called upon by his parents to choose a profession, he flipped a coin as to whether it was to be doctor or lawyer. The bar won and he took his degree in 1913 at the University of Virginia Las school. He was a Phi Kappa Alpha. Returning to the West, he opened a law practice at Carlsbad in 1916 with Robert Dow, onetime attorney general and now general counsel for the farm credit administration. In 1919 Livingston was a member of the state house of representatives, being one of the youngest men to hold that office at the time. From 1920 to 1926 he practiced law in Carlsbad. For years the caverns had been a prime interest and when Dr. Willis T. Lee of the U. S. geological survey was assigned to the territory on another subject, Livingston made a “cavern convert” of him and the latter succeeded in interesting the National Geographic society to the extent of a $16,000 grant. In this connection, the depression of the early 1920’s liquidated Livingston as a millionaire ranch owner(I think that the millionaire ranch and cattle owner was Carls's father, Morgan--Bob HoFF, 4/27/07) and by coincidence, he had come to Carlsbad, where sold his favorite saddle for $45, on the day when the Lee exploration party arrived. Livingston was promptly made first assistant One of the legends Livingston disposed of was that the caverns had been discovered by Jim White, a well-known southwestern character, in 1901, Livingston often pointed out the cavern was on the route of the forty-niners and that his folks had known about the place in the 80’s. Livingston himself was so familiar with those haunts he would often tell of his embarrassment when, in guiding a party for the first time after the caverns had been electrically lighted, he became lost. In 1926 when Robert Dow became attorney general, he named his partner as assistant and Livingston served for the two-year term. Returning to Carlsbad, he took up the lecturing, two years of which were spent on the staff of the Redpath bureau when he spoke in all parts of the country. During this period and later he contributed to various magazines such as the Blue Book, the Wide World magazine of London, the New York Times Midweek Pictorial and the Cattleman. He was, for a period, a special correspondent of the Times and his numerous articles to the New Mexico magazine made valuable additions to Southwest lore. His discovery of the Basketmaker race of 40 or so centuries ago, which placed them at least 2,000 years earlier than the Cliff Dwellers, was outstanding, especially for a layman who carried his point through sheer persistence. A lover of camping and the outdoors, Livingston was indifferent to hunting; he preferred instead, to enjoy the spectacle of nature. One of Livingston’s idols was Will Rogers whom he knew in the days when Rogers chummed up with Clay Macgonagill, another noted character. In 1928 he became assistant state land commissioner and counsel under the late Frank Vesley, serving for four years and again under the late Frank Worden and also Ray Rogers. In 1938 he took the post of legal adviser to the state oil conservation commission. He is survived by his wife, Mrs. Lillian Livingston, nee Mill, whom he married in May, 1932, at Socorro; three sons, Carl B. Jr. of Carlsbad, Leon and Robert Morgan; a daughter, Nancy Coral, his mother of Carlsbad; two brothers, Marvin of Hemet, Calif., and Joseph of Carlsbad.( The 1926 article below is undoubtedly one of my favorite writings about Jim White and the early cave. For me, nothing brings Jim White and early cavern activity into better focus. This article was entered in the Congressional Record during the political process resulting in the establishment of Carlsbad Cave National Monument on October 25, 1923 by President Calvin Coolidge. Bob Hoff, 4/27/07)

Through The Carlsbad Cavern with Jim White

by Carl B. Livingston

“Everybody please step up and write your names on the register,” announced Jim White, “so we'll know you’re not left when we come out!” Jim is the first explorer and the head guide of the largest cavern in the world—the Carlsbad Cavern of New Mexico. The cavern was made a national monument by the proclamation of President Coolidge about two years ago.

We were waiting a couple of hundred feet down in a great funnel-like pit, the natural opening to the cavern. It was 10 o’clock in the forenoon. Upward was a rim of yellow cliffs and a splotch of turquoise sky; downward was space, eternal darkness and silence.

The gate slid open and the crowd passed within; the gate closed and was locked with an ominous click—we were severed from the world, with our destinies weighing on Jim White and his staff of guides.

An excursion of phantom shadows, fairy realms and ghostly stalagmites: giant hallways, skyscraper ceilings and pits of hell-four hours of which brought us to rest in the huge chambers of the lower chamber.

“We’re 3 miles back and 840 feet below the surface,” remarked the explorer, as he lit a fuse that began to sputter from the end of a magnesium flare. “Course we could go down nearly a thousand and maybe keep a-goin’, but—”

Before he could finish the flare burst into a vivid white light like a prolonged flash of lightning. The inky cloud overhead dissolved and we saw the jeweled ceiling high above and the cliff-like walls standing far apart; the flare burnt out and once more depressing darkness closed in close around the cluster of lanterns.

“How did you ever manage to find your way into the lower chambers,” I asked.

“Me and Pete Smith,” Jim answered, “went off on a rope over the jump off in the big room and landed here in the lower chamber.”

“This lower chamber is just another colossal room under the big room; but we had reached the “basement” by the safe-and-easy route of the “dude”—through steps down a sinkhole in the door of the big room. Then a maze of winding passages and alluring hallways had led us into the great open space where we now stood in the middle of the lower chamber.”

While the flare was burning, a jump-off had been pointed out as the great, ring-like hole a hundred feet overhead and several hundred feet in diameter. And Jim White and his comrade, Pete Smith had gone that perilous route.

“Comin’ back out on the rope,” continued Jim, “I was kinda scared for Pete, because long toward the top he sorry kicked and fought the air. We had two ropes hangin’ side by side; on one we would pull ourselves up a foot or two at a time, and at the same time the fellows helpin’ us on top would jerk up the slack in the one that was tied to us. We made it back out without a scratch.”

“But,” he added, “before either of us topped out, we both was mighty near all in. And if it’d been another yard or two, I guess we’d a been down here yet.”

Jim White is not the explorer with the pith helmet, tight-legged pants, and horn-rimmed glasses—but the genuine article of cowboy tradition. There is a difference between the “high-brow”explorer with money and prestige as speedsters to fame, and the prowess of the pioneer who blazes the way over new horizons with just nothing save a step that is true and a light in his eye that knows no fear. There was no crowd of reporters to hang on Jim’s every word. Had he failed in his purpose, there would have been none of the soothing ointment of consolation that comes to explorers of position in the shape of “victorious defeat” when they do not succeed. Had Jim been killed, he would not have been a national martyr in the cause of science, but just a “durn” fool—he did succeed though and the hats are off to him.

Jim White does not talk much, except to a few, and not very often then. And I have it straight that what he says is not “windys” invented to entertain the “dudes” and that there is much else he does not think worthwhile to mention-incidents that would still be a thrill alongside those of an elephant hunter.

We had heard so much about the cavern we craved some of the simple facts from those who had really done the work, and we drew him out as best we could.

He was a sturdy-lean figure and even drawl. Down in the land of the unreal—of stalagmites and gloom—he sat cross-legged on the ground in the manner of the men of the range country; and while he deftly rolled cigarettes from the “makings,” he glanced back over the vista of his life and recounted with little concern experiences that would lay the basis for a new Arabian Nights.

It was learned that a mining company had once conducted extensive operations in removing from the cavern vast deposits of guano in the half-mile section around the entrance. Said Jim: “Twenty-five years ago I landed the first stick o’lumber upon the hill to build the shacks.”

“We always knocked off on Sundays and when the weather was bad—then was the time we explored! We had a happy-go-lucky bunch, too. Some of the boys used to love to set around all day and play cards, smoke and spit, and cuss until the air was blue. Others didn’t seem to get so much of a kick out of it, and a few of them used to go exploring with me.”

Sometimes his “pal” Pete went long; other times it was Lige Hill and Henry Samples, who are now guides and “know the cave like a pocket in a shirt and have been on the job ever since they have been yearlings.”

“We’d never bite off mor’n we could chaw,” was their maxim. Only a little at a time did they explore, and when known landmarks became firmly fixed in mind, they would push on farther.

In the early part of our visit we had followed a safe, zigzag trail through a gruesome pit, 150 feet deep, aptly called the “Devil’s Den.” The walls were so precipitous and irregular that the first attempts with no trail and without knowing what lay ahead, must have been a horror.

“That was the hardest part o’ the whole thing,” Jim declared. “Finally I made it across the Devil’s Den, and before I went on I made five or six trips across trying to find a better way.”

We had next followed for several blocks through a colossal hall whose ceiling often rose so high as to be out of range of even the pocket searchlights. The official survey found the height to be about 300 feet—a ceiling high enough under which to stand a fair-sized skyscraper.

“Long there,” Jim related, “we just kinda felt our way as we went. An’ I didn’t think much about danger until a mile back we run across the skeleton of a man layin’ like he’d fell off a big rock. That nearly queered the whole business with me—for a while at least. I thought I’d cut it all out and say I’d seen enough, but all of a sudden I just went on and I found the King’s Palace.”

What is known as the “King’s Palace” was recalled as a series of four great, mystic chambers whose decorations must have been patterned by nature after the myth of fairyland.

“And for a long time I thought the King’s Palace was as far as the cave went, but one day while back there we climbed up a steep hill into that big crack and follered it till it quit, and there was the big room.”

“We spent a night and a part of two days wanderin’ around over the big room, like bein’ turned aloose out in a canyon pasture on one long dark night with only oil torches for lights. Durin’ then we come up on the edge of a bluff, the jump-off, and that was all I'd started in to tell.

“But how did you keep from gettin lost?” I asked. “With this,” Jim replied, picking up from the floor a piece of rotten strong, which had strung through portions of the cavern years ago as he made his exploration. We remained in appreciative silence, and resumed, “The guano had been a hundred feet deep around the natural opening, but finally we begin to reach the rocks in the bottom. The works shut down, and everybody blowed up and left, but I kept hangin’ on.”

“Then I hit on the idea of takin' people through the cave to show ’em the sights, but I never expected to see such a crowd as all o’ this!” waving a hand at the throng.

We were informed that miles more of the cavern was then explored; but people who lived right at the entrance did not believe that the cavern was so stupendous a thing. Only a few came to visit what may with propriety be called “the eighth wonder of the world,” and not much impression was made on very many of these.

The fuse that set off the rocket of publicity by which the cavern became known is a young man by the name of Ray V. Davis, who came out and took many pictures of the cavern. Some of these photographs came into the hands of a Mr. Robert A. Holley of the United States Land Office, and he made a preliminary survey for the government. Soon thereafter the cavern came speedily to the attention of others of influence, which resulted in the creation of a national monument.

We had entered by cavern by a tediously long, but safe, stairway through the new natural entrance, which route is “the way de luxe” as compared with the perils of the old entrance. During the mining days the guano had been hoisted out of the cavern through a shaft punched through the roof.
Later for some time the shaft was used as the entrance for tourists. The descent was 180 feet through sheer space, in a mining bucket on the end of a steel cable.

“But we never did have any accidents around the cave,” explained Jim, “except once in the mining days when a drunk man come stumblin’ along and fell heels over head into the shaft. I was froze with fear, but the bucket, loaded with filled sacks, happened to be comin’ up and was just enterin’ the hole in the roof. Then up came the bucket and clingin’ on was our friend—when he put his foot on solid ground he shore was sober!”

Having seen a rat scamper across the floor of the big room, I inquired, “Have you ever seen life of any kind as far back as the lower chamber?”

“Yes, and farther, too—we chased a cave cat through this very room less’n a year ago; bones of other little animals have been picked up about as far back as anybody has ever been. It looks like there may be another entrance we don’t know anything about.”

“What do you consider the strangest thing during your explorations?” another queried.

“A runnin’ stream down herein the lower chamber when Pete and me went over the jump-off in 1906. It run till 1907. When we have a few more wet years maybe the stream will start flowing again.”

“And once I was walking along through a place in the cave we call Pipe Springs and I bumped into a stalactite; it broke off, and a stream of water gushed out like a hydrant open.”

“What was the closest call you ever had?”

“Once, when we used to use torches I was carryin’ some kerosine oil in a gunny sack slung over shoulder. The oil sprung a leak. Walkin’ just behind me was a feller carryin’ one of them blazin’ torches. The first thing I knew the man let that torch touch the rack and my pack started going’ up in flames and me tied to it! I had a time breakin’ loose from the pack, but I didn’t get burnt too much.”

“Speakin’ of bein’ excited, a priest that weighed 300 pounds went as far as the Devil’s Den, took a look, didn't like the look o’ things, and gave up the trip. That was the days when we pulled ’em up in the bucket. When the priest was about half way up, somethin’ happened to the engine, and we had to stop and leave him where he was for a minute or two; then we started to let him back down under perfect control of the brakes, and I could hear him mumblin’ something like a prayer.”

“It’s funny how much alike most people are. In the first part of the cave where there is nothing pretty every crowd hollers, ‘Oh, isn’t it marvelous!’”

“Also nearly everybody asks if I don’t think that this cave is connected with every other cave in this part of the country.”

“People are imitators—one starts to peckin’ on somethin’, and then they all will start poundin’ on whatever is handy. That’s the reason we don’t allow any walkin’ sticks brought into the cavern, because they get to usein ’em for clubs.”

“People love to write their names. This is strictly agin the rules—to write on the scenery. They don’t seem to realize that it took thousands of years for these formations to make.

“In the old days, when we used to let ’em take out a few souvenirs people was great hands to lug out a lot o’ junk to the surface where they would get a look at it and throw it away.”

“When a crowd starts into the cavern, we always give ’em the once over to see if anybody looks like he might not make the trip. It always makes ’em mad to turn ’em down and we hate to do it. Some even try to slip through. Once a man with wood feet got by us when we used to use the bucket and shaft. He didn’t go far—I found him layin’ by the trail near the Devil’s Den and I packed him back out.

“A couple of schoolma’ams showed up at the cavern with a dog. To see what he would do, we let him foller ’em through—and he kept right up with the crowd.”“Among the queerest that have ever been around here was the scientists. I didn’t pay much attention to them at first, but I found that every once in a while they would tell me somethin' that would keep me laughin’ for a week.”

“When we first built the stairway, a few people slipped into the cave before we could get the gate up. Up in the big room we run across a feller showin’ his girl the cave-he was carryin’ a lantern with one mantle broke off and with the other side barely danglin’ on. And when we asked him, he didn’t think anything about fallin’ through a sinkhole or perambulatin’ off over the jump-off.”

“And down here in the lower chamber another man was found wanderin’ around by his self. He didn’t seem to know that he could have strayed off and got lost in some of the lanes where we do not go for several days and maybe months at a time. That’s why we have visitors to register and why we keep the gate locked—we never take a chance on losin’ anybody.”

It was time to start back out and the crowd began to move. “Hay-a-a,” Jim called to a group that had started on. “You’re goin’ the wrong direction-back the other way!”

“You see,” he added, “how easy it is to get turned around. Who can tell which way is north?”

As many guessed one way as another, and we fully realized the satisfying feeling of safety in having such men as these guides, who know the cavern “like a pocket in a shirt.”

While we paused on a hill for a renewal of breath, Jim confided that he had just finished paying out a home by “herding dudes” through the cavern, he had a wife that could cook and a boy in school.

“But little Jim (now age 88--Bob Hoff, 4/27/07) is not to be a cave explorer when he grows up, because the job’s too dangerous for what you get out of it, and besides there won't likely be anything left to explore by then.”

At last upon the surface, the sinking sun was spreading a panorama in cerise and purple across the heavens. Following Jim, the waiting cars slipped away, one at a time, through the shadows into the desert back to town—Carlsbad—the starting and ending point, where we left our pilot of the underground to be picked up by the next party with the same curious ideas and funny questions.

---

© Bob Hoff, 2007

Claiming Or Not Claming Caverns Fame

Notice that Bullington is just showing a list of the claimants, not trying to decide who first discovered the caverns. To this very day, we still don't know the first person to "discover the caverns because we still don't have sufficient evidence to prove any one's individual story. I personally like what he says about Jim White: his accomplishments as an explorer and guide cannot be denied. For me, others certainly contributed to putting the caverns on the map (Willis T. Lee and family, Ray V.Davis, W.F. McIlvain, Tom Boles, local politicians, the National Park Service, the hundreds of employees that made the caverns accessible and "civilized," and every early visitor who came, "saw in awe," and carried word back to their neighbors.(Bob Hoff, une 2006--Some reformatting done for clarity; no facts changed, one bit of information added--BH

Who Discovered Carlsbad Caverns?

CACA Park Naturalist Neal Bullington

May 1968

Introduction:
Over the years considerable legend or myth has grown up concerning the discovery of Carlsbad Caverns and who the discoverer really was, We are sure the Indians knew of the Cavern for an extremely long time before us, so when we talk of "discoverer," we refer to an early immigrant. He may have been a wandering cowboy or sheep- herder. He may have been a rancher or farmer, or perhaps just a traveler passing through for parts unknown. It is almost certain that we do not know who the discoverer was and equally certain that we will never know. Anyone who could have told us did not come forward in the early days and is now long since gone,

It in not the purpose of this report to advance one claim over another, and certainly not to discredit the claim of any. It is merely to present the facts as we know them today, so that a better knowledge of cavern history may be gained by those interested.

Many men have laid claim to the discovery. No doubt some of then knew their claim to be false but advanced it for the sake of honor or notoriety. Others undoubtedly set forth their claim in good faith, sincerely believing themselves to be the discoverer. If a man chanced upon the entrance or entered the Cavern, and left only a slight indication of his passage, others coming later - whether one day or ton years - probably had no knowledge that they had been preceded.

The following pages are excerpts from documentation that we have concerning some early visits and knowledge of the Cavern. On some pages, footnotes reflecting current knowledge have been added to the source material,

'No report of this type would be complete without touching upon the presence in the Cavern of James Larkin White. For years many have credited Jim White with being the discoverer. To the best of our knowledge, Jim White made no active claim to discovery although neither did he go out of his way to stop others from claiming it for him. This in no way should tarnish his reputation as explorer and promoter, for that is completely justified.

The legend of Jim White as discoverer evidently dates back to a barbeque at the Washington Ranch in the early 1920's. Dr. Willis T. Lee,, hoping to promote the Carlsbad Cavern, had invited a great crowd of newspapermen and dignitaries to a free tour of the Cavern. Afterwards, they met at the ranch for the barbeque, When the meal was finished,, speech.-making was in order and various notables rose to eulogize Dr. Lee for his "Discoveries" and work in the Cavern. Some of the local residents apparently felt that Dr. Lee was tacitly accepting too much credit for things he hadn't actually discovered himself.

Note: We are indebted to Carl Livingston (Lee's assistant) for recording what followed:

"Among the big crowd of old settlers present were two who also could speak, but they were not on the program, nor had they been in the cavern that day. These were Bob Dow and the late Col. Etionne de Pillesier Bujac father of Bruce Cabot, the movie actor. Both men were old residents of Carlsbad. Bujac was a silver-tongued orator of the old school. 'When he talked he brought in the honeysuckles, the bees and the mocking birds, and he could hold an audience spell-bound with the eloquence of his oratory. Bob Dow was no slouch as a speaker, himself, and the two hatched an idea. The speaking was about through, Colonel Bujac was called upon and from then on took the place of the toastmaster. Bob Dow stepped forward and said, 'Mr. Toastmaster, I suggest that we hear a word from Jim White.' This started a shout from the hungry mob who had not come in on the barbecue 'We want to hear from Jim White.' Then a great silence fell over the crowd. At this Dr. Lee had a funny look. 'Who Is this Jim White?' a general asked a governor. The governor whispered 'A working person at the Cavern, so whispered Dr. Lee.'

Of course, Colonel Bujac responded, taking up his cue. "Your excellencies, I take pleasure in introducing to you the friend of my youth and comrade of all time, an unassuming cowboy with who I have ridden over the sun-kissed plains-JIM WHITE, THE DISCOVERER OF THE FIRST EXPLORER OF THE CARLSBAD CAVERN!’

.... Those forty newspaper men and women ate it up. Jim just about stole the show from Dr. Lee. Arid while the Cavern was well known to many old residents of Eddy County years before Jim ever set foot in it, he has ever since been credited with first discovering it.”

The legend was spread for many years by both the Park Service and the Cavern Supply Company. In our records we have NPS literature through 1936 which cites Jim White as discoverer. Literature sold by the Cavern Supply Company as late as 1941 likewise refers to Jim as discoverer*

*Livingston Carl B., "The Eighth Wonder".
New Mexico Magazine
March, 1934.
__________________________

Abijah ("Bije") Long claims to have been the discoverer, finding the mall hole above the Bat Cave while out exploring with Sam Evans and a Mr. Brown. He also says he found the natural entrance the next morning by seeing the bats enter it,

His second trip to the cave was allegedly made with Andy Fairchild and Jacob Lynn with the express purpose of exploring it. Long claims that an three went back into the Bat Gave, saw the guano there, and then returned to town so he could file a mining claim.

It is interesting to compare Long's version with those of Sublett and Hannsz NB
Source: Book–
Long, Abijah & Long, Joe N.
1966 - Seventh Edition
The Big Cave

-----------------------------------
"In justice to myself I state unconditionally that I an the original discoverer of what is known as the Carlsbad Caverns. By this term I do not claim that I discovered the hole in the surface of the ground first, for it had been known years prior to the time it was entered,, but I do claim that I am the first man to penetrate what is known as the Carlsbad Caverns and to discover something of its wonders and grandeur underneath the earth."

"About the month of July 1902, Abijah Long came to me where I was employed and asked me if I would go with him into the mountains. I agreed to go and did go with him. Andy Fairchild and Rose (sic) Sublett also went along with him...We were primarily an a hunting trip and had a camping outfit."

"We went to the opening of the Carlsbad Cavern which was a hole in the ground that a good many people had known about for years and we decided to explore it…I was let down on a rope…I did discover, however, indication of large deposits of bat manure or guano. This guano was of a soft nature and it would have been impossible for an animal or man either to have walked about in the cavern on this guano without making clear tracks. I now state that there was no indication of any tracks In the cavern at that time",

Note: Mr. Hannsz was the brother-in-law of Abijah ("Bije") Long, and worked for him as a supervisor in the early guano mining. NB

Source: Letter
Written by: Charles J. Hannsz of Haskell County., Texas
Certified by: Notary Public
Dates 24 NOV 30
_________________________

"This cave was first discovered by Bije Long, who gave a man by the name of Fairchild (sp?) $5,00 to go in it. He was lowered by a ropes, but became frightened before going far and was pulled out."

"Then Jim White was lot down and penetrated it to a considerable depth.”

This sounds as if the writer had heard confused Stories even at this early date. NB

Source: Newspaper Article
The Carlsbad Current
Beautiful Sights in Bat Cave West of Carlsbad 1,800 Feet Underground
Date: September 22, 1915

_________________________

“At the Bat Flight Program, May 14 an oldster, John L. Hess from Higgins, Texas, responded to the historical phase of the talk by reminiscing about his knowledge of the area. He claimed that some of his friends made an attempt to explore the caverns In 1902. PA maintained that at that time the caverns had not been explored. but that the entrance to it was widely known....Mr. Hess lived an a ranch some fifteen miles northeast of the Cavern entrance and had been all over this country, but know nothing about Jim White.”

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: John L. Hess of Higgins, Texas
Interviewed by: Ernst Christensen Senior Guide
Date: May 15, 1944
__________________________

“On July 25, 1946 Mr. & Mrs. R. E. Miller of Hammond Indiana went through the caverns. During that trip it was discovered that Mrs., Miller's aunt, Miss Chloe Williamson, Route #3, Valparaiso, Indiana, visited Carlsbad Caverns, and took a trip through them, when she was a girl of 16, in the year 1901 .... The trip to the cave was made from a nearby ranch on burros."

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: Mrs. R.N. Miller of Hammond Indiana
Interviewed by: Brad McGraw, Park Guide
Date: July 27, 1946

_________________________

Forehand claimed that he was in the Cavern in 1898, He says, “I was the first fellow to know bats were in it. All the old stockmen know the cave but didn't know about the bats. I was working on top near Oak Springs with another man, cutting sotol for cattle food"

Note: John Forehand was one of the early guano miners working for “Bije" Long.

NPS source:
Personal Interview: Mr. John Forehand interviewed by Mr. Tom Meador, Speleohistorian
Date: July 28, 1867

__________________________
Jim White Sr., told his son that his first entry was in 1898 but it got started as 1901 so he just lot It go on. Jim, Jr. feels that probably his father went In "just a little ways" in 1898.

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: Jim White, Jr.
Date: June 1966

------------------------------------------------
“Most Important is his declaration that from the years 1898 through 1904 was the greatest guano mining activity in the Carlsbad Caverns. He recalled this particular period of activity definitely, for mining was in progress while he was away at school."

At the time of the interview, Mr. Tansill was "possibly in his early sixties.” Although the dates he gives for guano mining may be correct, It was almost certainly In some other cave than this one. Also in a taped interview recorded 17 years later (20 FEB 63) by David Karraker and Ken Baker, Mr. Tansill admitted that he had little knowledge of the Carlsbad Cavern. In fact, he maintained vehemently that the natural entrance had been blasted out by the Park Service. NB

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: Robert W. Tansill
Interviewed by: Bennett T. Gale, Park Naturalist
Date: December 3, 1946

_________________________

The paper had an article on "Malaga" which mentions a cave.

... There is, also, a short distance from the stations a large limestone cave, known as the 'Bat' Caves from the almost innumerable number of bats that make it their home."

Source: Newspaper Article
Eddy Argus
Date: June 18, 1892

------------------------------------------------
This article is a description of a large cave and tells the story of a hoax in which two men claim to have found a petrified led man in that cave in NOV 1892

Although for years It was thought that this article referred to the Carlsbad Cavern, Speleohistorian Tom Meador had since definitely proved that it actually was McKittrick Gave. This source is included here to show how easy it is to confuse Carlsbad Cavern with other nearby eaves in historical references.(bold added 5/2001) It is quite possible that many old- who claim to have been in our Cavern were actually in another. NB

Source: Newspaper Article
Eddy Daily Current
An Underground Wonder
by Goding, Henry
Dates June 3, 1893

__________________________

Mr. Walters stated that by 1891 the Caverns had become rather well known among inhabitants of this area. In that year, 1891, Lucius Anderson, sometimes more commonly known as Grandpa Anderson, killed a deer near the site of the ticket office (now demolished). While dressing the deer, the bats came from the cavern and he watched the spectacle. This, according to Walters' knowledge, was the first time the cavern entrance was reported.

Source: not cited


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“Caverns entrance and the bat shafts are located in section 31 of Township 24 South., Range 25 East."

“The earliest plat of the township found was a map drawn by or Alfred H. Warren from a survey conducted July 10 to 16, 1884. This survey, for subdivision,, sections, purposes was made on request of a settler on the township, one Pantaloon Martin who paid $449.00 to the General Land Office for the work .... No mention is made on the map of the Caverns entrance nor of the Bat Cave. It does seem probable; however, that the entrance was noted at this time for the south boundary of Section 31 is a Range line. Any survey for subdivision purposes would have to run along Township and Range lines regardless of how desultory e survey of the inner sections. This would place the surveyor within one-half mile of the Cavern entrance."

“There were several early settlers in the Township and information concerning them follows:
1885 - William H. Hardy, 40 acres, Section 20, 1 ½ miles away.
1885 - Thomas J. Moseley, Section 4
1888 - Charles H. Dehuke, Section 4
1889 - H.W. Thaxton, Section 4

1900 - James C. Keith, Section 19, 2 miles away
1900 - Henry E. Robb, Section 20, 1 ½ to 2 miles away

Source: Land Office Records
Memo for the Superintendent as a result of search of records of the Office of the Bureau of Land Management, Las Cruces, New Mexico. By: Bennett T. Gale, Park Naturalist
Date: February 6, 1947

-----------------------------------------------
2006 Update Note: (1946--U.S. Grazing Service and General Land Office merged to form the Bureau of Land Management– Remember that Robert Holley, who lead the April/May 1923 expedition of the caverns, was a General Land Office--GLO-- “mineral examiner” stationed in Roswell. The expedition was done at the request of the NPS in Washington D.C. who were interested in finding out more about the cavern. Jim White guided this expedition; Holley did a report. Our CAVE brochure has an excerpt of the Holley quote in which he try to express the caverns in words. Holley recommended national monument status for this area, even fore Willis T/ Lee did.--Bob Hoff, June 2006)
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In an interview Mr. Torian told the newspaper that be had seen the big entrance hole into the Cavern in the 1880's "but had no idea that there was a woundrous cavern there." Mr. Torian claimed to be 103 at the time of the interview. NB

Source: Newspaper Article
Person Concerned: H.D. Torian, West Memphis, Arkansas
Carlsbad Current Argus
Date: April 21, 1963
__________________________

Carrera claimed that his father, J.C. Carrera, saw the entrance more than 65 years ago (before 1885). A sheepman told him about it and took Carrera and a geologist to see the entrance. They had no rope so they did not enter.
Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: P.E. Carrera of El Paso

Date: Circa 1950
__________________________

Mr. Shattuck claimed that on the evening of 2 AUG 1885, he and his father saw bats coming out of the cave. They went over and looked into hole, but didn't enter, He in sure of the date because something of importance happened to him less than a week later.

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: Ned Shattuck
Interviewed by: Dale Giese, Park Guide
Date: Circa 1960

-----------------------------------------------

'This is to certify that I. Rolth Sublett, of Artesia, New Mexico, Route No. 1, first visited what Is now known as Carlsbad Caverns in 1883 when 1 was twelve years of age. I went down the bats stayed. The cave was known as the Bat Cave. My father, William Caldwell Sublett was with me.”

“The next time I visited the cave was in 1900; it was in the fall. Bige Long and his father-in-law, whose name I do not recall, were with me. I showed them the Bat Gave, and they went back to the town of Eddy. After Long and his brothers- in-law left I went over close to Walnut Springs to we in Walnut Canyon an old Mexican who was about 83 years of age. He was not there and I came on in to the town of Eddy. That night I got in town and saw the old Mexican who was in Bige Long’s saloon and drunk. He told me Bige Long had given him a quart of whiskey and $5.00 for his rights to the cave.”.

According to Speleohistorian. Dr. William Halliday Sublett would actually have been five years old in 1883. NB

Source: Affidavit
Sworn to by: Rolth Sublett
Witnessed by: D.S. Libbey, Caverns Superintendent
Date: October 2, 1947
_________________________

The newspaper printed a letter from Mr. Angell in which he states: "I want to state that I ate (cake?)my birthday with W.L. Netherlin and family in that cave (CaCa) in December - forty years ago now - which was the year 1883, and we were not the original discoverers, either. We however, only explored the cave for a distance of about a quarter of a mile, as we did not have proper lights to make further exploration."

Source: Newspaper Article
Person Concerned: W.H. Angell of Carlsbad
Carlsbad Argus
Date: January 4, 1924
_________________________

Harrison was one of the early settlers in this area, establishing a ranch at Rattlesnake Springs in June, 1880. He died in Carlsbad in July of 1931. According to the paper which carried his obituary, Harrison "recalled a visit to the vast arched entrance(CaCa) in 1882, but did not attempt to enter the cave."

Source: Newspaper Article
Person Concerned: William Henry (Hank) Harrison
Carlsbad Newspaper
Date: Circa 1931

------------------------------------------------

“... certainly it (CaCa) was well known in the 70's(added 1870s, 5/2001). My uncle built his ranchhouse close to the cavern's mouth in that year and It was spoken of as a well-known land mark then.”

Carl Livingston was Dr. Lee' it assistant in the 1924 National Geographic expedition. He had lived most of his life in this area and knew it intimately. NB

Source: Magazine Article
Now Mexico Magazine
Livingston, Carl
Other Man's Bones
Date: January 1924

Note: June 2006--Carl Livingston wrote several articles aboutthe area; see in the library. BH

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"According to Mr. Hartshorne, guano was mined as early as 1880...He claims that the first load of guano was shipped out an the J.J. Hagerman, Railroad in 1881.

Almost certainly this does not refer to mining in the Carlsbad Cavern. In fact. it is interesting to note that the earliest mining claim specifying guano now known is an 1899 claim to -what was apparently Goat Cave in Slaughter Canyon. NB

Source: Personal Interview
Person Interviewed: Mr. Hartshorne
-4390 Triggs St. Los Angeles, Cal.
Interviewed by: Ernst Christensen
Acting Park Naturalist
Date: October 17, 1946

-------------------------------------------------

According to the article, Mr. Williams, then aged 77, made a tour of the Cavern. He then claimed that in 1877 he was attached to Troop M of the 8th Cavalry, stationed at Fort Bascom. He said they were chasing Indians through this area. covering territory about the Canadian and Pecos Rivers. They found many caves, including one where the huge entrance makes him think it was CaCa. He says a party entered, went a short distance, and “disturbed the bats".

There are of course. many other caves near here, such as Gunsight Gave, which have even larger entrances than Caca, NB

Source: Newspaper Article
Person Involved: Capt. Addison M. Williams, Santa Fe
Carlsbad Argus
Date: October 21, 1929

_________________________

1994 Bob Hoff Interview with Jim White, Jr.

August 31, 1994 (date of interview): Bob Hoff Interview With Mr. Jim White, Jr.From: History Leads and Resources , 94-14
September 2, 1994
Jim White, Tom Boles, pilot Amelia Earhart, and neighboring ranchers; Earhart visited the caverns in September 1928 See another picture in "Carlsbad Caverns--The Early Years" by Nymeyer and Halliday, p:131
Note: In this interview, Jim White, Jr. remembers his Dad going into the caverns in 1901. Back in 1984, Tom Meador, a spleo-historian very interested in documenting the history, as well as personally collecting historical documents relating to CAVE history, discovered a cave inscription reading "1898-J. White" up toward the caverns entrance. Other sources indicate other dates of entrance and other people maybe entering first. Nothing is definite for a "first human entry" fact for CAVE that I am currently aware of. Personally, as an interpreter, I explained the diversity of theories (which is real history not quite in the slick page textbooks). In my opinion, the best bet is saying "around the turn of the century" for the first non-native-Americans who encountered the entrance. Dave Kayser is an expert on native-American chronology. BH

Last week I received a call from Mr. Jim Dunwoody of San Diego, California. He said that his dad, Sam Dunwoody, had gone into the cave in the "old days" with Jim White. Planning a visit this October, Mr. Dunwoody wanted to know if there was anyone still alive from that general period with whom he could talk
.
I called Mr. Jim White, Jr. and explained the situation to him. He agreed to receive a letter from Mr. Dunwoody. I also asked Mr. White if I could conduct an oral history interview with him and he agreed.

I met Mr. Jim White, Jr. at his home on August 31, 1994 at 10:00 in the morning. He was very friendly and hospitable. In his living room hangs a large picture of his dad and Arthur Mayes, a local rancher years ago. (Arthur Mayes was grandfather to former employees Dolie Bond and father-in-law to Cal Miller, a Park Ranger who served here in the late 1920's, early 1930's, and in the 1950's as Assistant Superintendent.)

 Mr. White showed me several Jim White Life Story books, some postcards, photographs, corres- pondence, and a few newspaper clippings. He showed me a 1946 petition for Jim White's remains to be buried near the natural entrance. Petitioners were required to sign number of years as residents of New Mexico, and the year that they went down in the guano bucket. I wonder what the "guano bucket certification" had to do with such a petition.

I talked with Mr. White until 11:45 a.m. The tape recorder was turned off several times when he asked me to follow him to some pictures or books. What follows are paraphrased comments which Mr. White made. I asked him to state his full name, birthplace, and birthday.

He responded James Larkin White Jr., Carlsbad, New Mexico, March 23, 1913. (NOTE: he told me later that Larkin was the name of his grandfather). (He had told me on the phone previously that when his mother gave birth to him, she went into town, gave birth, and returned to their "shack by the Bat Cave" within three-four days.) Mr. White lived at the cave, with some periods being spent in town, until he was 15 or 17.

He said that they didn't have any water in those days and had to haul it from Oak Springs (a couple twenty gallon cans on a burro.) When Jim White, Sr. went to work at Oak Springs, he would take the burro with him, fill the cans, and turn the burro loose to find its own way home. Fannie, Jim's wife, would empty the cans into a barrel. Electricity came sometime between 1929 and 1930 when the power plant was built[1] and one of the guano companies purchased electricity from the National Park Service for their operation. The electricity was turned on at 6 a.m. and off at 11 p.m.

Mr. White remembers when he was five or six having a tutor for a year or so at the cave and then being taught school in a tent by the wife of one of the Rangers. In later years he would attend school in Carlsbad during the winter, staying with friends. He said, "I was about as bad as my dad; I didn't get too much education. Because you have to figure I got smarter than the school teachers--and I quit school."

Jobs he held: he worked in the mines (as a kid). He served in the Air Force stateside from Sept 12, 1942-Feb 24, 1946 with most of his service at Kirtland Air Force Base, Albuquerque. He ran the book concession with his dad until Jim White, Sr. died in April, 1946, and then with his mother. The book sales were good in the summer, but sometimes in the winter he would drive all the way out from Carlsbad and sell only one or two books.

After the service, he worked as a pipe fitter (primarily) and plumber three to four years) in Washington State and throughout California. He also worked at the Nevada atomic bomb test site and came to Carlsbad to work in the early 1960's when his Mother was ill, prior to passing away. After some more work in Tucson, Arizona, he returned to Carlsbad and worked as a dispatcher at the Ivestor's Bus Co. for eight years. He retired in 1984.

When I told Jim White, Jr. that we had a picture of him in the guano bucket with Elizabeth Lee (in 1924 during the National Geographic sponsored expedition), he said "I was in love with her. I was about five or six years old and I really thought a lot of her."

I asked him about his first impressions of the cave. Did there come a day when his dad took him in the cave? He replied that in went in when he was about 5 or 6, at the time Willis, Dana, and Elizabeth Lee were there.

He also remembered that Vernon Bailey, the Department of Agriculture biologist who wrote on the natural history of the Caverns, used to show him bats that he was dissecting for study.

Jim White, Jr. remembers that after one guano mining company shut down, he and another kid named Cap Best sacked up some guano, loaded it in the back of a pickup, and took it to town to sell, mainly as grass fertilizer. He also remembers a "dry dock" at White City for drying out bat guano prior to shipment.

He could also remember riding a guano wagon down the hill to White City. The hill going up to the Cavern was so steep that only one type of car--"a Baby Overland" manufactured by the Willys Co.--could drive forward up the hill (WOW!!, A car that could live up to its name: Overland, not Baby) The Model T car, with its gravity-fed fuel pump had to back up the hill. (Can you imagine the employee van having to back up the Big Hill? Not with me in it!) As a child, Jim White, Jr. was afraid of the hill.

I asked him if his Dad had talked much to him and his mom about the cave. He said, " Oh yeah, he didn't talk much period, but he was interested in that cave. That was his life. He spent his life out there.

He remembers that his dad worked for every bat fertilizer company that owned the Bat Cave. In 22 years, there were ten or twelve companies that owned the Bat Cave mining rights. Mr. Jim White Jr. remembered that the guano was shipped to California for use on the orange groves and he concluded, based on the frequency with which the guano mining interests changed hands, that the bat guano mining operation wasn't too profitable for anyone.

He also remembers that the last guano mining company had a mill in Carlsbad and that they mixed sulfur and guano for transportation, though Jim White, Jr. Has no explanation for the use of a sulfur/guano combination product.

I asked him about his dad wearing cowboy boots in the cave (we all recognize the inappropriateness of cowboy boot footwear in the cave today). He said that his Dad wore a "cowboy shoe," a lace up high top shoe. (Harold West says that today such footwear are called "lacers"--such boots probably gain nothing in traction over cowboy boots, but allow more ankle support).

I asked him to describe his dad's personality and told him that I had always pictured him as not much of a talker. He said that, "he was quiet; whenever he said something, he meant it."

He said that when people came by his dad would take them down in the cave. At first he didn't charge them anything, then he started charging them $2 a person. If they didn't have any money, he would take them anyway.

He quoted his dad as saying he thought of the cave "as a hell of a hole in the ground," but added that his dad couldn't see as much in those days as you can see now because of the lights. He also added that when they came out with the Coleman lanterns, you could see it pretty good. He thought that when the use of the Coleman lanterns first started, every fifth person in a group carried one. I asked him if he could remember when the Coleman lanterns came out and he said when he was a "good size kid."

In the Bat Cave they used old carbide miner lights. (NOW READ CLOSELY) They let a burro in a harness down into the cave on Monday and didn't bring it up until Saturday. It pulled the mining carts down in the cave.

He remembered that most of the mined guano came out of the west shaft, not the east one. His Dad said that when he went into the Bat Cave, the guano was piled up so high that he could just about touch the ceiling with his hat.

I asked him about the names of any men that his dad worked with and used the example "Dave Mitchell." He said that he knew Dave Mitchell real well, that he was a nice guy, and that outside of his father, Jim White, Sr. Dave Mitchell knew more about the cave than anybody else in the country. (Note: Dave Mitchell started in the NPS at the age of 37 in July of 1927 as a per diem Guide, making $4 a day. In his 30 year career, he also served as Assistant Chief Ranger, Laborer, and Pumpman).

I asked him about Superintendent Tom Boles. He remembered when they came in, how they arrived (train), the stone house built for Boles over by the present day Albertson's, and the Boles' daughter's name (Margaret) When Boles first arrived, he and Jim White didn't get along worth a d---. But then they became close friends. Tom Boles was a pallbearer at Jim White's funeral. Jim White Jr. added that Boles was a "picture-taking dude. He took nine million pictures."

I told Mr. White that today we don't know who "discovered the cave first." He responded that a lot of old-timers have seen that hole. He said that Ned Shattuck had gone by there.

He reported witnessing several return bat flights and added that there used to be a lot of bats, but now there aren't many, probably due to dryness.

I asked him if he thought that his dad was attracted to the Cavern entrance by bats and he said "yes." He added that he thought that his Father and some Mexican employees were building a fence for the Lucas Brothers Ranch. He said that the Lucas Ranch was located where the Washington Ranch is today.

He said that his dad went into the cave, not because he was brave, but because he was curious about where the bats were coming from. He believes the year was 1901.
I asked him if he thought his dad went in the cave, in the earlier years, alone or with others. He said that he mostly went alone. He related that he went into the cave for three days with a Mexican kid named "Pothead." He added that his Dad found two human skeletons above the King's Palace and Queen's Chamber near Iceberg Rock and the set of wooden stairs (top of Appetite Hill?) He brought out the skulls and gave them to Doctors Pate and Culpepper. He doesn't know what ever happened to them. His dad told him that he had found the skeletons there, but that he had no idea how they got there.

He reported that his dad never should have gotten the Chief Ranger job in the first place since he wasn't qualified for it. Jim White, Sri.. and Colonel Tom Boles argued a lot when Jim resigned his job, expecting a "Chief Explorer" job offer in its place. Jim White, Jr. said that his dad was expecting that position to be offered, but it never was. At that time, White and Boles weren't getting along too good. But once Jim White, Sri.. began selling books in the underground lunchroom, he and Boles started getting along better.

The only person that Jim White, Jr. didn't like in the NPS was Superintendent Don Libbey[2], who he felt hassled his family about the book concession.[3] Eventually, the strictness of the regulations governing the book sales resulted in Jim White, Jr. abandoning this book selling enterprise.

Frank Ernest Nicholson never explored anything in the cave that Jim White, Sr. hadn't already discovered. He wrote the Jim White Story for Charlie White to satisfy his room and board bill at White City, run up during his stay there during the Nicholson "Expedition" in the cave in 1930. Charlie White printed the book and retained half the copyright.

I asked him if he thought that Frank Ernest Nicholson had exaggerated some of his dad's cave stories. He said that it was possible. He added that, "to sell a book, you have to fire it up a little bit; I imagine that is what Nicholson was doing."
The names Cal Miller and Arthur Mayes came up. As a civilian, Carroll (Cal) Miller built the first parking lot at the national monument with mules. He went to work with NPS after that. Came back to Carlsbad Caverns as the Assistant Superintendent in the 1950s. He married Amelia Mayes; her daddy, Arthur Mayes, owned a ranch five miles south of the Washington Ranch. Jim White, Sr. and Arthur Mayes were very good friends (Jim White Jr. has a picture of his Dad and Arthur Mayes hanging in his living room. As a child, Jim White Jr. used to stay at the Mayes Ranch, visiting his friend, John Mayes).

I asked about his mom. She was born in Brady, Texas. She came to Lone Tree, N.M. at the age of the 4. Her Dad was a jailer and a deputy sheriff. She was the cook at the cave.

Jim White's sister, Roxie, was taught by Charlie White at one time. Roxie's married name was Weaver. Another sister to Jim White, Sr., Rosa, married Mr. Henry Samples, who started driving a water wagon before the streets were paved. Later, he was a night watchman, sheriff, policeman for many years.

Lige Hill, brother to Fanny Hill, (and future brother-in-law to Jim White, Sri..), was a caving friend of Jim White, Sri.. He died in a Veteran's Hospital in Brownsville, Texas. In Carlsbad, Lige or his dad kept a pet bear which Lige would wrestle.
Another brother, Fannie Hill's half-brother, Wiley Hill, was a right hand man for Uncle Bill Washington at the Washington Ranch. Wiley's nickname was "Wild-Horse." I asked Jim White, Jr. if "Wild-Horse" had ever been involved in a bat guano bucket accident that I seemed to recall. He said no, but that Wild-Horse once got sent to the state penitentiary for stealing mules, but only spent a short time in residence because Fannie and Wild-Horse's Dad, who was a jailer, managed to get him out fairly quickly.

A brother to Jim White, Sr. Xury Haskel White (born August 13, 1876 in Parker County, Texas), in later life became a probate judge. Accord- ing to Jim White, Jr., Xury always had poor eyesight ("he wasn't blind, but he couldn't see too good.") Xury not only went into the cave, but for a time he and his wife lived at the Caverns (Mr. Jim White, Jr. wasn't sure who Xury was working for).

I asked him if he knew about the time his dad had helped recover the body of a cave guide killed in an accident in Ogle Cave in 1915.[4] I had forgotten the victim's name, but he remembered "Sorrells" being the last name and I then remembered the rest of the name: "William Lafayette." He said that his Dad had a sister, Iva Dell (born March 22, 1994 in San Angelo, Texas), who married Golden Mode Sorrells, so the young victim--William Lafayette Sorrells was related to Jim White, Sr.'s brother-in-law.

I told him that I had the impression from reading documents concerned with the selling of the book on Jim White's life that she was a good business woman and asked him what he thought. He said, "No, not really."

We discussed the permit to sell those Jim White books in the underground lunchroom and how the terms changed through the years. He said that the initial agreement between his parents and the National Park Service was only oral. When Jim White Jr. took over the operation, the summer sales were great. But in the winter, sometimes he would drive all the way out from Carlsbad and sell only one or two books. When Superintendent Don Libbey arrived in June of 1946 to replace the transferred Superintendent Tom Boles (two months after Jim White's death), the operating regulations for the book concession seemed to get stricter and Mr. Jim White, Jr. lost interest in continuing selling his Dad's life story book.

The subject again turned to the Lees in general, then Elizabeth in particular. He remembered Elizabeth taking him throughout the cave to play with.


I asked him about his Dad supervising the building of the 216 steps wooden staircase straight into the Natural Entrance in 1925. He remembers Dave Mitchell, a caving friend of Jim White, Sr., who would later work for the National Park Service for 30 years beginning in 1928, as the primary builder. He also remembers Mitchell building the steps from the bottom and with each step installed, the young White's dog would get up on it. He also remembers, as a kid, sliding down the bannister of this staircase "like a bat out of hell."

A government man visited the cave around 1927 or 1928 and broke his leg in the Left Hand Tunnel. Jim White, Jr. said there wasn't any phone in the cave so he was dispatched to climb back out to get a phone call to Dr. Glazer from the ticket office at the Entrance. He took all available shortcuts, didn't stay on the trail, and made it out in 18 minutes.

When I asked him if he had ever heard of any other accidents in the cave, he said, "Old Jack Rupe's dad got killed down there working on the trail." (March 14, 1951--Mr. Earl Rupe)

I asked him to confirm or deny the story in Carlsbad Caverns: The Early Years about the 1924 barbecue at the Washington Ranch after the completion of the National Geographic sponsored expedition. Local folks were getting increasingly alarmed about the credit "outsider" Willis T. Lee was getting about the cave and its discoveries. Colonel Etienne Bujac then introduced Jim White to the crowd as the first discoverer of the cave. He confirmed it.

Around 1930 Colonel Bujac, a lawyer, tried to help Jim White by writing letters to influential people to get Jim the Chief Explorer job he felt that he had been promised when he resigned as the Chief Ranger.

Incidentally, Bujac's son was Bruce Cabot, a Hollywood actor of some renown in the "olden" days. In the early 1930s Colonel Bujac committed suicide in the backyard of his home, near to the Pecos River. (Just down the street from where Jim White, Jr. lives today) Jim White Jr. Said that Colonel Bujac was "a hell of a guy."

I asked him how his dad felt about the National Park Service in later years after not getting the Chief Explorer job. He said that after he got to selling books down there, he got over being angry at them (euphemism supplied).

U.S. Senator Dennis Chavez helped Jim White, Sr. to get the book- selling permit. According to Jim White, Jr. Senator Chavez warned the NPS that he was going to get Jim White the whole park concession operation even though White just wanted the book selling operation. Under this political pressure, the NPS gave Jim White, Sri.. the book selling permit and Senator Chavez backed off the threat of getting the whole concession operation for Jim White, Sr. I asked Jim White, Jr. if Chavez did that because he thought his dad deserved it. He replied, "yes and because he was a good friend." The agreement was oral at first according to Jim White, Jr., and was to cover his Dad's and Mom's lifetime at $1.00 year.

I asked if his Dad ever said anything about naming the formations. He agreed with me that he probably named a lot of them.

He showed me a picture of a man named Ert Haney. His first job in the NPS was to build the rock Superintendent's house by where Albertson's grocery store came later. Haney worked a number of years in the NPS and his wife worked in the nursery.

I asked him if he knew what ever happened to the original guano bucket. He relied, "It's in Charlie Duggers' garage. I gave it to him." He identified Charlie Duggers as a grandson of Charlie White. I asked him if this was the same guano bucket he used in the underground lunchroom when they were selling books and he said, "yes."

He volunteered that two original "Jim White Story" books cost him $40.00 in a Santa Fe garage sale, located by Franklin Smith, an ex-NPS employee.

He told me that his dad couldn't get anyone to go into the cave with him except the Mexican kid. He told me that his dad spoke pretty good Mexican and others did too since there were many Mexican people around.

He thinks that his dad probably took about a month getting ready to go into the cave the first time "because he knew that he was going to go in there and see what the hell was in there--curious."

Jim White, Sr. and the Mexican kid, referred to as Pothead, went into the King's Palace and Queen's Cham- ber areas, as well as the Big Room. They took a great big ball of string to string out behind them so that they could find their way out.

He broke off the stalactites as markers to get out occurred on the first trip.
Jim White, Jr. had never heard the story about his Dad losing his light, then running full steam into a cave formation.
Jim White Jr. saw what was left of the skeleton bones in the cave after his dad gave the bones to Doctors Pate and Culpepper. He said that his Dad never had any idea of how the bones got there, but he found them.

I enjoyed the hour and a half that I spent talking to Mr. Jim White, Jr.


[1] Copy of the National Register of Historic Places Nomination form, Section: Bldg. 10, in History Leads and Resources, 92.02
[2] Superintendent, CCNP:June 28, 1946 - April 1, 1951 from Historic Listing of National Park Service Officials, U.S. Department of the Interior, May 1, 1986
[3] Note: Libbey arrived approximately 2 months after Jim White's death.
[4] On a Sunday afternoon, some sightseers came by, asking for him to guide. His Mom didn't want him to go, but he did, and on the trip, a rock struck his head from above. Also see "History Leads & Resources, 92.02 (November 4, 1992)